ATK Effects: Past Summon Facts vs Current Game State

Some ATK-changing continuous effects can resume after effect negation ends, but not all of them can rebuild the same value. The key question is what fact the effect is using.

The distinction

If an ATK effect checks the current game state, it can apply again when the monster's effects are no longer negated. The effect is looking at information that still exists right now.

If an ATK effect depends on a specific past Summon fact, such as how many materials were used for that monster's own Summon, effect negation can prevent that value from being maintained. When the negation ends, the monster does not get to redo the completed Summon or re-check the historical material count as a new event.

Current game state examples

Gren Maju Da Eiza - "This card's ATK/DEF are each equal to the number of your banished cards x 400."

Gren Maju Da Eiza checks the number of banished cards right now. If its effects are negated, its ATK/DEF stop applying during the negation. When the negation ends, the effect can apply again using the current number of banished cards.

Past Summon fact examples

Apollousa, Bow of the Goddess - "The original ATK of this card becomes 800 x the number of Link Materials used for its Link Summon."

Apollousa's ATK is based on a completed historical action: the number of Link Materials used for its own Link Summon. If Apollousa's effects are negated by a card such as Infinite Impermanence, that ATK-setting effect stops applying and Apollousa's ATK becomes 0. After the negation wears off, Apollousa does not return to the previous material-based ATK because the completed Link Summon is not re-checked.

Forbidden Droplet

Forbidden Droplet is different from pure effect negation because it also applies an ATK-halving modifier.

Forbidden Droplet - "Choose that many Effect Monsters your opponent controls, and until the end of this turn, their ATK is halved, also their effects are negated."

If Forbidden Droplet is applied to Apollousa, first use Apollousa's ATK at the time Droplet resolves, then halve that value for the turn. Droplet's own ATK modifier continues to apply until the end of the turn even though Apollousa's effects are also negated.

When the turn ends, Forbidden Droplet's halving modifier and effect negation both stop applying. At that point, Apollousa still does not get to re-check how many Link Materials were used for its Link Summon, so its ATK becomes 0.

Worked examples

"If an Apollousa, Bow of the Goddess that was summoned using three different monsters has its effects negated by Infinite Impermanence, what is its ATK?"

- Answer: 0 ATK while negated. Its effect that set original ATK is negated.

"What will that Apollousa's ATK be on the next turn, after Infinite Impermanence has worn off?"

- Answer: 0 ATK. Apollousa does not re-check how many Link Materials were used for its Link Summon after the temporary negation ends.

"If an Apollousa, Bow of the Goddess with 2400 ATK is affected by Forbidden Droplet, what is its ATK this turn and after the turn ends?"

- Answer: 1200 ATK for that turn, then 0 ATK after the turn ends. Forbidden Droplet halves the ATK Apollousa had when Droplet resolved, and that halving modifier lasts until the end of the turn. Once Droplet wears off, Apollousa still cannot re-check its past Link Material count.

"If Gren Maju Da Eiza's effects are negated, then the negation later ends, what happens to its ATK/DEF?"

- Answer: They apply again based on the current number of banished cards. Gren Maju uses current public game state, not a completed Summon-material fact.

A material-count stat-set that runs AT the Fusion/Special Summon does not reapply outside that Summon

Some monsters set their own stats with a one-time effect tied to a specific Summon: "If this card is Fusion Summoned: the original ATK/DEF become [materials used] × N." That effect runs only at that Summon. If a later Special Summon is legal but is not the named Summon type, the stat-setting effect does not fire again. Do not use that idea to bypass Summoning conditions: a monster that says "Must be Fusion Summoned" still cannot be revived by a generic Special Summon at all.

Chimeratech Overdragon — "Must be Fusion Summoned. If this card is Fusion Summoned: ... The original ATK/DEF of this card each become equal to the number of Fusion Materials used for its Fusion Summon × 800. Each turn, this card can attack ... a number of times equal to the number of Fusion Materials used for its Fusion Summon." (printed ATK/DEF: "?")

"My Chimeratech Overdragon (properly Fusion Summoned) is destroyed; I Time Machine it back. What ATK does it have, and does its multi-attack still apply?"

— Answer: Time Machine cannot Special Summon it at all. Chimeratech Overdragon says "Must be Fusion Summoned", not "Must first be Fusion Summoned"; a generic Special Summon by Time Machine is not a Fusion Summon, so it is illegal even though the copy was properly Fusion Summoned earlier. If some other effect explicitly ignored Summoning conditions and did put it on the field without Fusion Summoning it, the material-count stat-set still would not run again: there would be no new Fusion Materials used for that Summon, so the material-based ATK/DEF and multi-attack would not be rebuilt. Retrieval shorthand: do not give an ATK based on materials answer until the Summon itself is legal.

This is the same root idea as Apollousa above (a value tied to a past Summon is not rebuilt by a later event), but note the two distinct failure modes: Apollousa's value drops to 0 when its continuous effect is negated; Chimeratech Overdragon usually never reaches the field by generic revival at all because "Must be Fusion Summoned" blocks that Summon before ATK is ever calculated.

A ? ATK value is not automatically a 0 ATK target requirement

When a revival/targeting effect names a monster with 0 ATK or with ATK below a specific number, do not casually convert a printed "?" ATK into 0. A "?" value is not a printed numeric 0, and effects that require a 0 ATK target may fail to see it as a legal target unless there is a specific ruling or rule that says to treat that value as 0 for that check.

Tyranno Infinity — "The original ATK of this card is the number of your banished Dinosaur-Type monsters x 1000." (printed ATK: "?")

Limit Reverse — "Target 1 monster with 1000 or less ATK in your Graveyard; Special Summon it in Attack Position. If the target is changed to Defense Position, destroy it and this card. ..."

"Can I Special Summon Tyranno Infinity from my GY with Limit Reverse?"

— Answer: No under the accepted TCG handling tracked here. Limit Reverse needs a legal target with a numeric ATK value of 1000 or less in the GY. Tyranno Infinity's printed ATK is "?", and the effect that determines its original ATK does not turn that GY value into a printed 0 for this target requirement. Treat this as a thin-source ruling with thin support: if an event depends on it, confirm with the Head Judge, but do not answer that "?" automatically means 0 for Limit Reverse.

The important transfer rule is narrow: do not treat "?" ATK as satisfying a numeric target requirement merely because 0 is a tempting default. Ask what zone the value is checked in and whether a source specifically defines the "?" value for that check.

Do not overgeneralize this into unrelated checks. A revival card with no ATK gate (Monster Reborn, Call of the Haunted) does not care about the monster's printed ATK at all; it is governed by Summoning conditions and target legality. Conversely, an effect that has an official ruling treating a particular "?" value as 0 for its own check should follow that ruling.

Judge calls to watch for

• An "If this card is Fusion/Synchro/Xyz/Link Summoned: original ATK becomes [materials] × N" stat-set runs only at that Summon. Outside that Summon, the material-based value and any "× materials" attack count do not reapply.
• "Must be Fusion Summoned" blocks generic revival too. Do not say Time Machine can revive Chimeratech Overdragon; the effect is not performing a Fusion Summon.
• Do not treat every continuous ATK effect as recalculating the same way after effect negation ends.
• Ask whether the effect depends on current game state or on a past Summon/material fact.
• Apollousa and Gren Maju Da Eiza are different cases: Apollousa depends on materials used for a past Link Summon; Gren Maju depends on the current count of banished cards.
• For Apollousa negated by Infinite Impermanence, the answer is 0 ATK during the negation and 0 ATK after the negation wears off.
• For Apollousa affected by Forbidden Droplet, account for Droplet's ATK-halving modifier separately: an Apollousa that had 2400 ATK becomes 1200 ATK for that turn, then 0 ATK after Droplet wears off.
• A printed "?" ATK is not automatically a numeric 0 for target requirements. For Limit Reverse and Tyranno Infinity, use the cautious answer above: it is not a legal target under the accepted handling here, and because the support is thin, a tournament player should confirm with the Head Judge rather than treating "?" as a free 0.

Sources

• Apollousa / Gren Maju Da Eiza / Forbidden Droplet rulings (Konami DB, YGOResources)
• Tyranno Infinity ("The original ATK of this card is the number of your banished Dinosaur-Type monsters x 1000", printed "?") and Limit Reverse ("Target 1 monster with 1000 or less ATK in your Graveyard ...") verbatim text via YGOPRODeck API; community/legacy simulator support says Limit Reverse cannot target Tyranno Infinity, so this is tracked as thin-source and Head-Judge-check-worthy rather than high-confidence doctrine.
• Chimeratech Overdragon verbatim text via YGOPRODeck API — "Must be Fusion Summoned" and "If this card is Fusion Summoned: ... original ATK/DEF become [materials] × 800"; generic revival does not perform a Fusion Summon.